Monday, September 30, 2013
In-Class Discussion Notes.
In the comment box below, please respond to a classmate's ideas from our in-class discussion of The Crucible Acts 1&2. You can extend the idea, offer an alternative idea, reshape it, appreciate it, etc. Since two of the honors blocks were not able to complete their discussion, and we have a half-day tomorrow which will further complicates things, let's set the due date for this post on Wednesday night. Thanks, Mr. Telles.
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In our class discussion on Thursday, someone spoke about the needle in the doll and the needle in Abigail. I wanted to expand on that certain topic a little bit more because to me it seemed like a lot of effort to do all that to try and accuse Elizabeth Proctor of witchcraft. For the other people that the girls were accusing all they had to do was say their name and they were taken away immediately. It seems that Abigail really wanted to have real evidence of Elizabeth doing witchcraft unlike everyone else she accused. Abigail knew that there was a possibility that if she only accused her by saying she saw her with the Devil that she would be set free and not hung so instead, she decided to stab herself with a needle in the stomach for evidence. Also, I think the reason that Abigail wants Elizabeth to be accused of witchcraft because not only is she the Proctor’s wife she also wants to get revenge on the Proctor for telling her that he didn’t want anything to do with her.
ReplyDeleteAfter our class discussion on Thursday, some comments that stuck with me over the weekend on Act 1 & 2 in the Crucible included Proctor trying to redeem himself for the discreditable actions that had occurred with Abigail. It is a fact that Proctor had made mistakes in the past (regarding adultery) which had me thinking of why he would do such a thing. Was his and Elizabeth's relationship not doing well, or did he really have feelings for Abagail? Next, after all the charges had been pressed on Elizabeth, Goody Corey, and Goody Nurse, I wondered who would be next. I also pondered if the three women would be harmed, and if Proctor should take some of the blame as to Elizabeth being taken away. All in all, conversing with my peers during the class discussion, helped new ideas surface for me to ask myself as we move on to Act 3.
ReplyDeleteIn class on Thursday, I got a really good grip on what some of our class mates were talking about when we were having a discussion on the Crucible. Something that stuck out to me was this idea on why these girls thrive for attention. I believe these girls have something all planned out in their heads. I believe the plan is to draw all this "good attention" towards themselves, so they can target who ever they want, when they want, get away with it, and still be the "good guys". These girls are doing all the accusations but where is the evidence? Could they be lying? why does everyone believe them? They're "witch hunting" group is going to get nipped in the butt, they're group is going to start dwindling down in numbers and people are going to end up doing physco/crazy things.
ReplyDeleteWithin the class discussion, many students concluded that the girls within the play had started to use the events around them to start to get back at those who had bothered them in the past. This is shown clearly when Abigail begins to accuse those around her so acts they did not commit, like stabbing her. She went out of her way to accuse Elizabeth Proctor of witchcraft, which says a lot about Abigails character. Abigail wasn't the only one to make such accusations about those around her but hers was definitely the most lethal and the most extreme since she went to such lengths to get Elizabeth in trouble. One other thing that was discussed quite thoroughly was the fact that the people in the town really had nothing better to do so they overreacted to the acts that have taken place like the dancing in the woods and everything that went with it.
ReplyDeleteIn class on Thursday we discussed what went on in Acts I & II in “The Crucible” and I was able to understand and communicate with my classmates during the class discussion. One comment asking why they would accuse Rebecca Nurse of being a witch really stuck with me over the weekend. I asked myself in my head why a person like Goody Nurse, who had such a great reputation, could be accused. Then I realized that the girls are accusing anyone who poses a threat to their families on any given day. Goody Nurse is not liked by Ruth Putnam because the Nurse’s own land that the Putnam’s wanted. Goody Putnam, Ruth’s mother, also hates Goody Nurse because Goody Putnam is jealous that Goody Nurse has a healthy children and grandchildren, where as she lost seven kids in child birth. It just goes to show that these girls have all the power and can accuse anyone they won’t and point fingers. They are using scapegoats, rather than taking responsibility for their actions. The whole town of Salem is becoming corrupt and I am curious to see what happens next. I found this comment to be extremely contributive to the discussion and I enjoyed how it made me think beyond what I would usually do.
ReplyDeleteAfter the discussion regarding the Crucible Act 1&2 we had on Thursday and today, stuck in my head was the idea of how Abigal is looking for not only a partner but a father figure and is trying to find both within one person, the married Proctor. I feel like Proctor is trying to start fresh but the persisting Abigal won't let him. She is without a father and mother, so the attention she had recived from Proctor was translated into both a romantic relationship and also into a role model father figure that she cannot let go of. She tries blaming Proctor's wife of witchcraft to get him alone so that she can take him back. She wants Elizabeth gone. This makes me wonder what will happen with the whole Elizabeth, Proctor, and Abigal situation in Act 3 of The Crucible.
ReplyDeleteIn class on Thursday we discussed many things. Listening and learning about new ideas is always good; especially when it comes from a friend or classmate. The book "The Crucible" is a great way to use that alternative, for the fact that it has so much to offer it can be helpful for many discussions or debates that we ever do. All of the ones contributing to the discussion made good and interesting points that helped understand the book so much better. One of the points said that made me really think about it further, was the fact that people were being passed down by little girls. Someone mentioned that the fact that the people of Salem are letting themselves pass by a confusion because of little girls. That's so incredible and unreal. They need to realize what is going on and solve it, instead of accusing one another without actual proof. They are so fascinated by the results that their actions are taking and they are forgetting about the actual problem. They just want to leave their skin off and let others burn for their own mistakes; which again, is very selfish ad unbelievable. It's like they planned this whole thing out since the beginning just to get others in trouble and so they would eventually be forgotten as the actual causes of the witchcraft. Abigail is a big part of this; she used her own consequences on others, and she ended up letting innocent people into something that they had nothing to do with. It's kind of sketchy in a way. It's a big snow ball going around and around, and it wont stop until someone decides to solve the problem or sit and talk, because just blaming others and using them as Scapegoats is not going to help, it's going to get worse and worse, and when they finally realize it will be too late. Sometimes people confuse others so that they don't confuse themselves.
ReplyDeleteIn class obviously we all know we talked about acts 1 and 2. I think the biggest idea that stuck to me is how calpirnia started to name off people and scapegoat them to get out of trouble. How the three girls listed people off was interesting. They listed some people off by class. first we realized that that Abigal started to name off people of the lower class and gradually getting to the upper class. im still confused and not sure why she did this, thats something i sort of want to talk ab out in class so i can understand better. Bu the idea that stuck out the most was how each person turns out blaming it on someone they dont like. its sort of ironic this whole thing. Sbigak did the wrong and since she got her chance to blame other innocent people , people listened. now some people even go to them and be like you should say this because this this this. The person talking to one of the girls knows that people will listen becuase they beleive that those girls seen it akk since they have "seen the devil"
ReplyDeleteThe main idea that stuck in my head about acts 1 and 2 of the Crucible was the Hale was going along with the idea of the insanity of witchcraft because he likes the attention. We mentioned how Hale has a boring life, like all of the other people of Salem, and how maybe he is going along with everyone else and believing everything about Abigail flying and continuing the hysteria with the Ten Commandments just because he likes being needed. I think that Hale actually thinks everyone is insane and just loves the entertainment. He probably threw in the idea of the Ten Commandments just because he knew that not a lot of people in Salem could quickly recite them. I think Hale loves the attention and the fact that everyone needs him all of a sudden. Maybe he is doing all of this because he likes the comfort of being a part of something, even if it is with crazy people.
ReplyDeleteOn Thursday the class spread their questions and responses about Act 1&2. The class brought up many good ideas such as the idea that the girls were scrambling to get a attention. Good examples of this is the fact Betty only wakes up when its beneficial for her. In Act 1 when she learns the concerns have shifted from her. Not only are the girls trying to have it their way but they also are trying to climb the "social ladder". No matter what they are all trying to have the spotlight on them. Abigail tries to be the leader of the group as she tries to tell the girls what to say though Tituba decides to not listen to Abigail. Each person in the community tries not to only climb the social ladder but always have a scapegoat no matter what they do. Each person blames it on each other in a constant circle where it comes back to someone, somehow. In the story it is a constant fight between taking and putting the blame on others, and trying to become the person everyone talks about in a good way.
ReplyDeleteOne of the main ideas about acts 1 and 2 of The Crucible that stuck with me was how the girls just wanted attention and excitement in their lives,and they knew exactly what they were doing when they accused those people of witchcraft. They knew how restricted the people of Salem were, and that they were also desperate for excitement. The girls must have known just how seriously the adults would take what they were saying about witches and the devil. Abigail probably also planned out who she was going to accuse, because she wanted Elizabeth dead, and that's who she claimed was a witch. The girls knew that they would all be taken seriously if they said anything about witchcraft.
ReplyDeleteOn Thursday, we talked about how everyone in the book wanted more attention on themselves and more excitement in their life. I also believe that they were accusing people so that they would be out of the way and the person accusing could get what they wanted easier. One example of this is when Abigail accused proctors wife of witchcraft because she loved him and wants to be with him. She wanted his wife to be hanged so that she could try and get to proctor without him being married so her name wouldn't be dirty. That is another reason that people were accusing others is they wanted to make sure they wouldn't be in trouble for witchcraft. The three girls were originally going to say that they were just dancing, but they ended up getting everyone else in trouble and changing the whole town.
ReplyDeleteOne of the ideas of our discussion that I though was great was when someone spoke of Abigail wanted older men like John Proctor because she never had a father figure in her life. This statement is both true for the time in the book and true in our life today. I want to extend this idea by saying that Abigail's need for love and attention makes her vulnerable. So, when she finally gets this attention that she has wanted her whole life, she has sort of what you call a field day with it. She starts pointing fingers at people that she knows that are lower on the social ladder. Then, when she has gotten all the attention that she needed, she goes after the love portion of her loneliness. By going after John Proctors wife. But, if you have noticed, she is slowing moving up the social ladder. First she accused homeless people, now she is attacking a farmers wife. The need for love and attention gives Abigail motivation to attack all these innocent people.
ReplyDeleteIn our class discussion, the topic of witchcraft and the girls wanting attention came up a lot. One of the comments that stuck with me is about how the girls are seeking attention, I feel as though at first the girls thought it was innocent and would maybe earn them the attention they were looking for. The girls successfully got the attention of the town, but the whole thing has blown up out of proportion and the girls are just blaming others so they themselves aren't suspected. I feel like the girls are just going along with the stories of witchcraft so they have a clean slate and nothing to worry about.
ReplyDeleteIn the discussion on act 1 and 2 of “The Crucible” many interesting points were made, but one that stuck out to me was that several people were just accusing others based either out of needless fear or suspicion such as when Giles claims that he couldn’t properly pray when his wife was reading a book, but in reality he was never good at reciting prayers. Some had a reason to despise that person and place that person into trouble. An example is when a man said that a pig he bought from Martha Corey had died not long after the purchase. He wanted his money back but she refused the refund saying it was his fault. He then claimed soon after every pig he had died prematurely and that Martha had cursed him. Most people said that others were witches to shift the attention onto others and off of themselves, attempting to avoid any punishment.
ReplyDeleteIn the class discussion, the main topics that stood out to me were two things, one being that the girls were simply craving attention. All of the girls involved in "witchcraft" were said to have had a good reputation in the past. I feel that the "innocent girls" they appeared to be, just wanted attention and with this harmless stunt they felt they would get it. The townspeople clearly gossip and word spreads very quickly. I feel that knowing this, the girls felt that they could easily cause a little scene and get away with it but also get people to notice them all over the town. Unfortunately for them, there plan went out of control and people took it to an extreme. The girls started reacting in insane ways, such as acting possessed, threatening each other, and than blaming innocent people so that they wouldn't have to take the fall for it. The other topic that someone mentioned was how Abigail goes for older men because she never had a father figure in her life. Her father was killed in front of her when she was younger, leaving her to basically grow up without a man to look up to and watch over her. By dating these older men, she can get not only the romance and love of a husband, but also the love and feel of a father figure. I thought that this comment was completely out of the box and something that many people probably wouldn't think of or connect the dots to. All of these girls have had something individually happen to them in their lives that reflects on the way they act during this event and throughout the book so far. But I feel that all the girls have something in common, as someone mentioned, that they just want attention that they can't get.
ReplyDeleteIn our class discussion a lot of great points were brought up, but one that particularly stuck with me was that the people of Salem were playing the blame game on each other. The class seemed to agree it started as a cry for attention from the girls, but started to turn into a way to get back someone from town you didn't like. One example I have to support this is Abigail saying Elizabeth is a witch. Abigail wants to be with John, so she figures if she claims Elizabeth is a witch, she'll be hung and Abigail can have John. The class also brought up the point that the Salem people are saying others are witches for personal gain. Like for land or for power in the town. The townspeople also blamed witchcraft on other people so that they themselves wouldn't be called a witch. In the end I think that the people of Salem believed if they weren't the victim of witchcraft, that somebody else was going to call them a witch.
ReplyDeleteIn the class discussion we talked a lot about act 1 and 2 of the Crucible. There was a lot of talk about. The idea that Paris was using Reverend Hale to protect him from the prosecution. The idea was that since Hale was a big religious figure, having him on Paris's side would make it impossible for Paris to be a witch since Hale trusted him. This is also true in a sense for Hale because since Hale was a religious figure in the town, it would be impossible for people to convict him of witchcraft because of his place in Salem. It just proves how religiously based people were at the time that they would believe anything that would have something to do with their religion. They also would follow anything a religious figure would say. It also proves that Paris has somewhat invincibility in the witch situation since no one will go against Hale. This idea may not only be true for Paris, but for the girls as well, since Hale is also on there side and so are most of the people in the town since they are using the girls to convict other people of witchcraft. I think this can go in a chain, that the people lower in society are convicted first, but soon it makes its way to a point where even the people more known in the town are convicted.
ReplyDeleteWell, I wasn't in class on Thursday so I'm not sure what we talked about, but I thought the topic of discussion was about what motivates people to target and scapegoat members of their community, so I wrote down a few of my thoughts on the subject. I think some people accuse others of witchcraft as a way to improve their appearance in the eyes of the rest of society. For example, Abigail accuses Elizabeth of witchcraft so that she will look like a better person than Elizabeth, and Elizabeth will be hung so Abigail can be with John Proctor. Also, some people like Tituba scapegoat others to try and save their own necks, for example, when she claims to have seen others with the Devil to avoid getting in trouble. The deeply religious folk of Salem also don't understand why they would receive such misfortune from God since they believe they are such good God-fearing people, it can't be God whom is punishing them, so they blame their problems on somebody else, like when Goody Putnam accuses Rebecca nurse of causing the deaths of her offspring. Lastly, I think people target others in their community and spread lies as a means of entertainment in their bleak and dreary lives as puritans.
ReplyDeleteOur in class discussion was very detailed and many insightful and meaningful things were said that I myself never would have picked up on my own. One of the many points brought up that had me thinking the most was the comments about Abigail and Proctor. The most disturbing and yet fascinating thing in my mind was the whole conversation about Abigail looking for a father figure as well as a loving relationship all in the same person. When it was first brought up I found it so incredibly disturbing that I did not put a lot of thought into the truth of the situation. Also I understood exactly the point being brought up once I thought of other scenarios I have encountered in my life where a girl much younger than her boyfriend is so attached to her. Applying this to my own experiences helped me to understand the point made. I still find this to be very weird and think it is not at all right by any means, but I guess their reasoning may make sense if they have not had the mature male in their lives to be there for them.
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